Title: John Kiriakou Reveals the Biggest Unanswered Questions About Jeffrey Epstein
Show: The JK Report
Date: 2026-07-20
URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VExqrlIJf1c
Duration: 4562

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[00:00] I want to bring on Julian Dory. Julian has been one of the best podcasts out there and I have to say it was one of my favorite to appear on recently. Julian, I'm proud to call a friend. Julian, welcome to the show. >> It seems to me that there's there's going to be damage here to Western alliances. Right. Donald Trump has already he's already offended um a lot of NATO leaders in the well in the first term by talking about the old Europe versus the new Europe for example and aligning himself with the likes of of um

[00:33] Hungary and Victor Orban in Hungary with Poland and Romania at the at the expense of um of the US relationship with the UK, France, Germany and others. I mean, Spain, Italy, uh, uh, Denmark. Oh my god. He, how many times did he in threaten to invade Greenland and to take it by force? What are the long-term consequences of of these splits within NATO, for

[01:03] example, on longerterm US alliances and foreign policy? >> You know, if he actually splits economically and contractually, if you will, it's not really the right way to put it, but you know what I mean. then it could have serious reverberating effects in the future like a Brexit to the UK that was like written in stone and they left and they're not in the shanken zone or >> is that the right way to put it? >> Yeah, I I got you. >> You know what I mean? So that's that's like not officially what it is. But like

[01:34] >> right now now he's threatening some of that stuff, but like we're still in NATO, you know, we're still a part of all the stuff and people's feathers are all ruffled. But the fact of the matter is, I'll use another president. Look at the relationship between the United States and Israel when Obama was in office. >> Mhm. >> Wasn't good. >> No. >> The day Trump got in office, it was great again. >> Mhm. >> You know, no point. Good point. You know, that's a good point. So, >> it can change like that based on an administration if there are not actual agreed upon unbreakable

[02:06] broken bonds. Sorry for the pun there or whatever that is. But like if if something like that were to occur then yeah it it could have reverberating effects. Now where Donald Trump has always had a point on this and I agree with him is that we provide a lot more and they places like NATO financially aren't supporting it like we do and rely on us too much without getting anything in return and kind of use us. I agree that was rhetoric he had back in 2015 2016. I agree with that. But there's a way to go

[02:38] about it. you know, there's a there's a way to play hard ball without, no pun intended, nuking everything, >> right? >> And I'm a huge I'm a very moderate guy politically, extremely moderate. And I'm a huge proponent of middle ground solutions. And sometimes you have to pull a little bit to get people back towards the center. I understand that. That's the dynamics of physics. But you know, you don't have to rip the tablecloth from underneath all

[03:08] the silverware and take the silverware and plates with it. >> That's right. That's right. Um, I've got to ask you a couple of questions about American politics. And and I'm going to preface it by saying I have been a political animal since I was 16 years old. Obsessed with politics, volunteering on campaigns. I've never missed an election until my right to vote was taken away from me and then I missed one before I had it reinstated. But um I've always been obsessed.

[03:41] I think this is the very first time in my life when I genuinely don't have the foggiest idea not only who the next president's going to be, but who the nominees of the two main political parties might be. And if you go on to on to some of these predictive apps like Koshi for example. >> Yeah, >> I actually looked at this yesterday. There are 44 Democrats and 26 Republicans being talked about as

[04:13] presidential candidates. What's what's going on with that? What kind of conclusions should we draw from that? >> I mean, first of all, who wants the job? >> Seriously, right? You're probably going to be prosecuted and indicted once you leave office anyway. >> Yeah. What kind of person wants the job? What is their mental predisposition? >> You have to be a [clears throat] narcissist and probably a sociopath on top of it. >> Right. >> Sure. >> So that's a bad start cuz people are awake to that now. And it's probably

[04:43] even more so that case I'm guessing than it was even 30 years ago. Bill Clinton was in office by the way, >> you know. So that's really that's really saying something. But, you know, I I I texted some mutual friends of ours in February and early March. I remember texting Danny Jones this. I talked with DeF about it. And then actually Glenn Greenwald went on Danny's show at the end of March and said this, which had me clocking it. And I said, you know, I try

[05:14] again, I try to look at things just by patterns, 30,000 feet in the air and things change like crazy. But to me, I said if he runs and if they don't kill him, and those are two big ifs, the next president I think will be Tucker Carlson. And I don't say that as a political statement. I don't say that against or in support of him. I say that just as a predictive idea. And the reason I say that is because he can run to the right of woke and to the left of the neocons. And that and and then he

[05:45] also has the third and fourth part which is he has celebrity status and a lot of charisma. >> Yeah. >> And he's also way more schooled and even if you disagree with everything he says or the evidence he brings and you are free to do that. He's way more schooled than anyone maybe to ever run for office is in being able to body bag someone in a debate on the spot like that. I mean, I have seen Tucker Carlson make points

[06:15] before that when I think about it later, I think he's like actually entirely wrong. [laughter] And yet when I was watching it, I was like, damn, this cooking, you know what I mean? Like he has that. And you know, he that's why Glenn brought it up. He's like, he says he's not going to do it. Uh, and you know, Trump said the same thing. >> Julian, I've begged him to do it. >> That's kind of what I think. I've begged him. I've begged him to to run for president. >> And he Oh, yeah. And he told me that

[06:45] Glenn has begged him and he said, "I'm not interested at all." And then when I said something as recently as a week ago, he said, "I'm not going to run. It's not going to happen." And I said, "If you change your mind, I'm allin and I will do whatever you want me to do to help get the word out." >> Whatever. I think that he would be an absolutely brilliant president uh presidential candidate and president. And I will add too, I think he's

[07:16] probably the only person in America who could run as an independent and be a viable nationwide presidential candidate. >> I agree with that. >> In in 2016, I had just gotten out of prison a year earlier, and Governor Gary Johnson, he had been a Republican governor of New Mexico. He was running as the Libertarian Party's presidential nominee. Yes. >> He asked me if I would travel with him around the Western United States and introduce him at his various campaign stops. >> I jumped at the chance just because I've

[07:47] always liked and respected Gary. He was a terrific governor. He cut taxes something like 175 times in four years. It was ridiculous. It set a record for the for the state. And um so we got to thinking that that things were so upside down in American politics in 2016 that he had an actual shot of winning his home state of New Mexico and maybe the state of Utah. He didn't. He got something like 9%

[08:18] [clears throat] in Utah. The polls had him in the low 20s. That didn't work out. He did well in in New Mexico, but that didn't work out. Hillary Clinton won New Mexico. Donald Trump won Utah. >> I think Tucker Carlson is an entirely different animal. >> Oh, yeah. >> I think that you are >> Yeah, >> you're exactly right when you say that he runs to the to the right of woke and to the left of neocon. I think the polls are very clear that Americans are sick and tired of these forever wars, but

[08:48] they also hate with a capital H this woke nonsense about trans this and trans that and women using men's be uh bathrooms and and and competing in women's sports. there is a happy medium and I think that right now in today's America he represents it as a wild thing to say and it's wild that you're not >> if you're wrong you're not that wrong

[09:19] you know if you would have told me that two years ago I would have laughed in your face and now it's like >> things are so whiparolled all over that it's like yeah you know some people are like that makes sense my my whole thing is again, we can look at it with someone lower down the totem pole like a Bonino or whatever. We can look at it with Trump and things of that, but what happens when you get in there? And why would Tucker Carlson be any different? I I'm an optimist as a person. I love humanity. I love the world. I love that I wake up alive every day and I continue

[09:50] to go about my life with a smile on my face. I still, you know, as a part of my job, call out the things that are bad. But it's like, you know, cynically on politics. That's just that's where my head is. And I you wonder if a guy like that is just castrated the moment he gets in there. Regardless of what you think of his politics, he is a maverick kind of guy. Like, oh, I'm do what I want. Is he really going to be able to do that? >> Right? Because don't forget, don't forget there is a deep state. >> That's the whole point of this show.

[10:21] There is a deep state. We've talked about it a thousand million times. When you've got people at the CIA, at the FBI, at the Pentagon, at NSA, and they are there for 25, 30, 35 years, and they know presidents come and go every four years, every eight years. And so they can just ignore this president or they can manipulate the president. That's the danger. That's why the country's broken. >> Yep. And again, it's like how deep is the root of

[10:53] that tree? >> Yeah. >> And is it possible to be able to pull out, you know, and that that's that's where it it gets difficult. But but my look, my approach and my job has always been to like stay out of the politics. First of all, I do like no domestic politics on my show. I hate it. I have no interest in it. The politics we do is like geopolitics cuz everybody's guilty. So, it's easy. That's right. you know, but I I've never accepted having a politician on my show or someone running

[11:23] for public office. Like that's been a rule. Never say never, but like, you know, I'm 410 episodes in and that's been the rule for 6 years. And part of it is like I have to be able to criticize or praise without any skin in the game. And you know I I think that unfortunately there is now this dynamic where politicians whether it be through podcasts or social media or whatever you know a lot of them come across as cringe and fake but then you get the right charismatic one they

[11:54] can use these tools to seem buddy buddy or seem like one of you and all that and it's like are you are you and I wonder about that with everyone I wonder about that with Tucker too. I don't know the guy. You do. But, you know, it's like, hm, is this is this a long campaign for him to actually get to that role? And what's he trying to do when he gets there that he's not telling us right now? Because I don't know that I believe like to come back to the cynical point, I don't know that I believe that any outsider actually can end up in there because like was I I I'm really Trump

[12:24] was an outsider at this point. I always gave him credit for that. I was like, well, you know, he's he's an outsider. He was the guy that wasn't even allowed in some of the elite communities in New York cuz they were like, "Oh god, the [ __ ] Trump guy with the signs." >> Was that really the case? I don't know. Were you there? I wasn't there. So, I don't know. Mhm. >> But it it's just, you know, we have right now we have the system we have and you got to operate with the best possible solution and where I can bring on people from across the spectrum to talk about the [ __ ] that's going on in

[12:55] the world and how it pertains to us to give people information to decide for themselves. And then if people use that information in the context of them making their votes in November when they go to do it for whoever they do it, great. I'm just not going to tell you what to do or ever support anyone. It's just how I got to roll. I've got to ask you about the mainstream media in the United States. [clears throat] Um, you've you've criticized mainstream media coverage rightfully uh so in my view. >> What do you think they're getting the most wrong now about these major international issues? Epstein, Iran,

[13:27] Ukraine, we could pick a half a dozen others. >> Well, they're all passively on the payroll. I'll even give them some some credit here and not just say they're all literally in on it, which you can make that argument. >> Certainly some people that certainly are, but like when all of your ads are for pharma companies, >> you're probably going to show for pharma companies, >> when all of your analysts that give you access to stories are from the deep

[14:00] state, >> right? And you're reporting stories. You're not sitting here bullshitting with people and you know around on on even like a von podcast where it's fun comedy and whatever and it's like a different layer like no no you're doing the whole I'm tweeting out and breaking stories every single day and that means that my job is my income is derived from that like that's what that's their standard in mainstream media when you have that impet or that incentive

[14:31] >> now look at the people who control the access to the gates of that incentive. >> Mhm. >> Who are those people? What are their motives? They're not good. >> No. >> You know, yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. You and I have had conversations in the past about uh >> about the Freedom of Information Act and what some of the revelations from FOYA have revealed about the mainstream media. I've got a friend, Jason Leopold, who's an investigative journalist from Bloomberg. Jason, I think, is is an unsung hero in the American media. He um

[15:03] was called a foya terrorist, a Freedom of Information Act terrorist by George W. Bush's Pentagon spokesman because >> that's a compliment. >> Isn't that a compliment? He because he filed more Freedom of Information Act requests than any other person on the planet. And among the things that he found, well, he's the one who broke the Hillary Clinton email server scandal >> just by filing a Freedom of Information Act request. But he told me one time, this is about 10 years ago, that he was bored over Christmas vacation, Christmas

[15:36] break, nothing's happening, no stories, everybody's home with their families. So he filed a Freedom of Information Act request with the CIA. And he asked for all correspondence over the previous year between the CIA and all American journalists. And what happens is, you know, the law, the Freedom of Information Act says that that the government entity has 60 days to respond. Well, they don't respond in 60 days. They'll either, you know, take 60 years or they just won't respond at all.

[16:08] I filed a FOYA request in uh 2011. I was thinking of writing a story. I'm still waiting for a response from 2011. And every few years, I get a letter just saying, uh, we haven't forgotten you. It's just that the queue is long. I'll never get a response. Okay. So, what he does is he on the 61st day he sues the CIA >> and because the law is clear and it says you have 60 days, he wins every single time and the CIA has to pay his legal fees because it's in the wrong. So, he

[16:39] files this lawsuit. He sues them on day 61. He wins. They release thousands and thousands of emails between the CIA and um and American journalists. He found a couple of very interesting things. Two interesting things. Number one, Kent Delaneian, who used to be the head national security correspondent for the Los Angeles Times and and now is the chief national security correspondent at NBC News, was sending articles, his own articles, to the CIA for clearance and

[17:11] approval before sending them to his own editor. That's the death of journalism right there in a in a nutshell. Another thing he found goes to the point that you just made a moment ago. >> There was a young hungry independent journalist who really did stumble on some real story having to do with the CIA and >> the CIA wrote back and said, "So help us God if you publish that story. you will never be invited to the CIA Christmas

[17:42] party ever again and we will never give you off thereord classified briefings ever again. And so he killed his own story. That's how Washington works. In the last four weeks, the Washington Post, now owned by the American oligarch Jeff Bezos, um I love using that word because it's always meant as an epithet and they only use it for Russians and Ukrainians. So I use it for Americans. The American oligarch Jeff Bezos has

[18:13] fired 80% of the staff of the Washington Post and in the last four weeks they have shut down their investigative journalism function. It's the death of investigative journalism. So now we have to rely on outlets like ProPublica or the Brennan Center [clears throat] or independent journalists who who have the hunger to dig for these uh for these stories. They're not going to make any money. They're not going to

[18:43] make the the million dollars plus a year that Ken Delaneian is making at NBC News. And I know that because I know the guy that he replaced and I know what he was making. Um, >> you know, we're gonna have to rely on local reporters who dig through the mayor's trash can to find evidence of uh of wrongdoing. And believe it or not, that won the Puliter Prize last year. So, >> what was that? >> In Oregon, two two local reporters from a free newspaper

[19:14] had information that the mayor and the city council chairman were corrupt, so they just stole their garbage. And these two politicians were stupid enough to throw away documents proving their own corruption. And so this little local rag won the Pulitzer Prize for investigative journalism. >> I'm not laughing at that. I'm laughing cuz I'm just thinking about the memes of you being like in a dumpster all night long. [laughter] >> You smell like I was a woman.

[19:44] >> For those of you who don't understand, go to Tik Tok. [laughter] I said to someone the other day, I'm like, "Yo, you realize John is like the Andrew Tate of 2026." Not like the style, just like Andrew Tate in No, no, no. Hear me out. Andrew Tate in 2022 just like he was everywhere. I'm like, John's just everywhere now. >> And oh my god, the cameo clips and everything are just I I get people sending me four to five a day. Literally

[20:17] four to five a day. like, "Yo, look what this [ __ ] John just said on Cameo." I'm like, "Damn, if you only knew." Um, but it's it's just Yeah. I mean, you're like, I don't know if you understand this, but you're so big that there are memes of the memes of your meme. >> Oh my god. >> So, like your story about [laughter] I laughed. The guy died. It's horrible. like the Iraqi janitor, there will now be a picture of a dude who's not you looking up at the sky of Scud missiles

[20:47] coming at him and it'll say at the stop at the top like something something referring to something that just happened in the world and it'll be like meanwhile the Iraqi janitor and people know what the reference is to your name's not even mentioned and they're like yo if you know you know bro and then there will be a meme of that meme. It's just like >> how do I get paid for all this stuff, right? That's what I have to figure out. >> You keep making those cameos. Do you know you you De and I were down seeing Danny and Matt at like the same time you were and then Danny tells me the next

[21:18] day that you were at the same hotel and he's like, "But don't worry, John was so busy making cameos, he'd have never been able to see you guys anyway." >> Joe Rogan mentioned me last Friday. Somehow he and a guest got onto the topic of cameos and they went to cameo.com to see who the leader was and he said, "Oh my god, John Kiryaku broke Cameo." I'll tell you what, I did so many cameos last month. I did 900 in the month of March that the CEO of Cameo flew to Washington to take me to to lunch. [laughter]

[21:48] >> Oh my god. >> I I broke the all time record. People, I don't know if people if you know this, but people have you do these cameos and then they upload it to the internet with the edit on it and get millions of views. >> Crazy. Crazy. >> It's nuts. Like, it's absolutely >> God bless capitalism, I guess, is all I can say. [laughter] >> Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Okay, we have three minutes. I I have one last question for you. Final question. When you connect Epstein, these elite networks, we're talking about

[22:19] geopolitical conflict that's breaking out all over the world, are you describing a coordinated system or are you describing overlapping but unrelated power structures? How worried should we be about all these developments? >> The answer is officially I don't know >> what it is yet. But you are, you and I are absolutely right to be very suspicious that there is some intermingle ties. >> Moving on. Um, it seems like in the news these days, it's just it's Iran, Iran,

[22:52] Iran all the time. This is I think you and I both agree this is one of those manufactured crises. Um, I've been debating a lot of people, a lot of like important people who think that I'm dead wrong, that this was an Israeli uh an Israeli uh decision and that the United States was either duped, you know, tricked, convinced to enter in on the side of the Israelis and do Israel's dirty work for it. We'll get to that in a minute. But

[23:23] you have connected rising tensions with Iran to broader global power structures. What do you think is really the driving force behind this war? I do my best to go off of what people quite literally tell us with their words and their actions because I'm not in these rooms. I don't know these people. I don't have the sourcing that some of these journalists online have. It was ironic when right when the war broke out, that was like my greatest sourcing time of all time. I had you and a couple

[23:53] other people that I didn't bring public who were spot the [ __ ] on that this was happening and why it was happening and what was going on in that room. So, shout out to you. You bought some [ __ ] for that. [laughter] But >> I did, >> you know, like that that was like a that was one moment where I was like, "Wow, we really got something here." You know? >> Yeah. I'll tell you, let me interrupt you for one second. Yeah. >> For for people who don't know what we're talking about. I came on your show and I predicted that the US would attack Iran that that the US and Israel would attack Iran. And what I said was two things.

[24:24] Number one, people with access to the White House told me that the president had made a decision to attack Iran and that there were battle lines, that the anti-war faction was the vice president, the director of national intelligence, and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, which was consistent with what happened 23 years earlier when we made a decision a decision a decision to attack Iraq.

[24:54] Right. >> And then people jumped all over me and they said, "Oh, we're supposed to believe that people with security clearances and access to the White House are just going to walk up to John Kiryaku, a convicted criminal leaker, and they're going to volunteer classified information." Yes, that's what we want you to believe because that's what happens literally every single day. I'm not a [ __ ] There are a lot of people who trust my

[25:26] judgment in Washington. And yes, some of them have security clearances and access to the White House. Another thing that I said on your show that day was if there was one important lesson I learned at the CIA is that if you want to understand American war planning, watch the movement of naval assets. If we send an aircraft carrier strike force, that that's a strong message. If we send two or more, we're going to war.

[25:57] >> And that's exactly what happened. >> Yeah. So, and and some more color there, by the way, cuz again, this was very different from, you know, there's been a few stories that accidentally get broken on my show and afterwards I'm like, "Oh, wow." You know, this this was this was a first. So, cuz you do a lot of interviews and stuff and you're always all over the place. So, I want I'm going to take you back to when you came here cuz it was literally right before. But you walked in the door, you know, after

[26:28] driving up, you're sitting in a lot of traffic and you're like, "God damn it, we're going to Iran." I was like, "What?" [laughter] You're like, "Yeah, no. I got this is up." And we start talking about it and then I'm like, "Damn, that's crazy. We can't talk about that." And you're like, "I'm doing it." I'm like on air and you're like yeah I'm like all right all right all right all right all right all right all right all right all right all right all right we'll we'll we'll save that for the end let's do it but then you and I >> off the record talked about like your sourcing and all that and the thing >> by the time you had gotten to me the thing that you were shocked about was

[27:00] that that anti-war faction which had consistently I we weren't breaking news on this respect it had consistently seemed to based on previous reporting by the people consisted of exactly what you said Gabbard Van Vance and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. By this time, your guy was like, "Yeah, they got the the Joint Chiefs aren't like crazy, but like they're now on board with it." And the only hold outs were Vance and Gabbard, which that to me, like when I was thinking about it afterwards, I'm like, "Okay, so these guys were totally against this for the longest time, and

[27:33] now they're on board, which tells me they're not on board at all. they've just been pressured into doing this by and now I'd speculate by other people who are not on that but let's say around those conversations and who are those people because then that's exactly what happened you know and and we and we saw these people go and you know what there was this side point there was one part of your report and I remember telling you this where I'm like I don't think that part's going to happen because it we were recording on a Friday we ended

[28:03] up going into Iran a Friday evening we ended up going into Iran basically almost exactly a week later in the middle of the night, Friday, Saturday, right? >> Y >> and one part of your report was that they said they were going to do it on Monday or Tuesday. >> And I'm thinking I'm thinking they're not going to do that because the State of the Union's happening. I don't think you would do that before that. However, >> you might have actually, and this is pure spec, I don't we'll never know. You might have even gotten that right if not for the fact that the same time we were

[28:34] recording, when we got out of the recording, Tucker dropped that interview with Mike Huckabe where he very casually said, "Yeah, Israel can have the whole Middle East as far as I'm concerned, which caused a diplomatic crisis in the whole Middle East and might have >> might have delayed any planning. So, I I don't know, but I was blown away by the flip of the of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. So to get back to your original question as far as like what is causing this again I told you I look at actions and words that we all can see open- source intel and when you have on the

[29:06] same day separate and I've saw these in context separate admissions of the speaker of the house who's a very weak guy >> yes >> and Marco Rubio the secretary of state >> saying that the United States decided to attack because they knew it knew Israel was Boing is an admission that Israel was taking this into their own hands. Now, here's the contrary point to that as well, which doesn't change the overall symbolism here. But Israel has

[29:38] reportedly, according to other administration officials, believe them or not, I don't know, in the past, threatened this many time with presidents like, "Well, if you don't do it, we're going to go." And presidents always said, "Knock yourself out." And then they never went. So maybe this is the first time they were able to bluff their way into it. I don't know. But when I see that and then I see what that government is doing under the cover of this war now, as we're talking, they're supposedly getting to a 10-day ceasefire

[30:08] with Lebanon, which I'm very much rooting for. I hope that is the case. But like we watched the defense minister Katz and the finance minister Smootrich, who's a nut job. We talked about him forever. >> Dangerous. >> Yes. openly discussed the minute they went and attacked Lebanon under the guise of this whole Iran chaos, openly discussed seizing the land up to the Latani River and never giving it back. And then they even went to the to the Drews and the Christians in the area

[30:41] >> and gave them a heads up, which is cool. Cool. And said like, "Hey, you know, maybe you can come back and say cool." if not for for the fact that it was them telling them, "By the way, the majority population, the Shiites, if you know where they are, tell us because we're getting them the >> And I just say I'm like, you know, you and I have talked about before a minority amount of people in Israel voted for this government because there's so many parties over there." And then >> Yeah. >> Right. And they almost had a civil war right before October 7th because people were in the streets. So a lot of people don't support this, but like when you

[31:12] see what the current government is doing, you cannot help but think there like it's not a lot different from what Hitler did take land. >> It's very very parallel. Replace the word Shiites with Jews >> and replace the Israeli government with Germany >> and you are seeing some of the same themes. Get out of this land. This is our ours now. You know, we're expelling you from it. >> And like Yeah. Like if they want to take out some Hezbollah guys, fine. But you

[31:43] and I both know, you've said it before, you put it beautifully. It's like they'll take out a whole city block to get one guy. >> Yeah, they will. >> And you think this isn't going to cause bad PR? I I don't think that's the case. I think they just I I think the guys in power just don't care. And so I I've said forever, I'm like, I'm a common sense thinker. I've always called for regime change in Iran, just not forced regime change. I've called for the people there to rise up

[32:14] >> and handle it because I feel bad for them. They've lived under a horrible regime for 47 years. >> You know, the same thing in Israel. Vote these guys out. >> That's right. >> You know what I mean? Like, get rid of them. >> I went back and looked, you and I talked about this. Benjamin Netanyahu has never won more than 27% in an Israeli Israeli election. He's the longest serving Israeli prime minister in history and he's never won more than 27% because there are so many political parties in Israel. This is not just a minority

[32:44] government but it's a small minority government and yet he carries so much authority in the United States. George Galloway the uh the British parliamentarian um commented last week said something that was so funny. Funny because it was true. There were rumors that Netanyahu was dead. Netanyahu was hiding in Germany. Netanyahu was hiding in Cyprus. He was hiding in a bunker somewhere in Israel. And George Galloway said, "Netanyahu is missing. Who's running the

[33:14] United States? It's leaderless." >> Yeah. Yeah. This is this is the thing. If any other leader in the world [ __ ] on Trump the way that Benjamin Netanyahu huckers up and shits on Trump's face over and over again, he would be throwing a fit online. He would cut off all trade. He would tariff the [ __ ] out of that country. He would I He might be wild enough to declare war.

[33:45] >> Yeah. Yet over and over and over and over again, these guys openly, these guys, referring to Israel's government, defy the American wishes. >> Mhm. >> And demonstrate that they have no interest in peace. You know, you saw that March 23rd true social on on that Monday morning from Trump talking about agreeing to a ceasefire at night. Excuse me, let me let me correct that. Agreeing to a

[34:16] ramping down in some hostilities. It was not a ceasefire with Iran. And at the time it was I I'm trying to remember maybe it was 5 days or something like that. And he specifically referred to their energy infrastructure and one other type of infrastructure related to that. Within the hour, the Israeli Air Force tweeted out, "We have begun a brand new round of campaigns specifically at what infrastructure?" which which doesn't mean energy infrastructure, but then go look at the timeline and look at the [ __ ] they blew up. They blew up energy infrastructure.

[34:46] They blew up like they they blew up a gas pipeline and [ __ ] like that. An open palm smack across the face of Donald Trump. >> Yeah. So you >> you have to ask yourself why do they have why do they have that kind of power over him? >> This is a small nation. Yeah, >> they should never have that kind of influence over over a leader like ours. And I would say that about any country and I have. >> Yes, you're exactly right. So, I think you and I are both of the agreement or

[35:20] that that or of the position that this is going to have to be resolved through diplomacy. Whether the Iranian government survives or not, I personally believe that that it will survive, but diplomats are going to have to settle this thing. So, >> how does the US balance deterrence and diplomacy, especially given the risks around oil routes like the Straight of Hormuz? >> Yeah. >> I Well, this is one you'd have a lot. I mean,

[35:52] you you have life experience with this. I I I don't if I were looking at it from strictly an outside view of like power dynamics and how humans work on the one hand. Well, unfortunately now it would appear and we don't know this for sure because there is all kinds of misinformation in any war. Yes. >> But it would appear that the very lowly supported >> Iranian government now at least has more support than it did on February 27th.

[36:23] Yes. >> All right. Now, whether or not that's 10% more or 5%, I don't know. But the fact is, if anything, you've just strengthened them a little bit because people are like, "Why the bombing me?" Right. >> Yeah. >> So, that's a problem. Secondly, I I'm not going to be one of these guys who no matter what our leaders do, I'm just going to make sure I [ __ ] on them. If Donald Trump has to go make an about face and without him admitting it

[36:54] verbally because he never will, basically admit a mistake defeat and pull out and cut your losses and try to rebuild what you've unnecessarily torn down in the last eight weeks. I will credit him for that >> because that will be doing swallowing the pride and doing the harder thing for at least trying to salvage something. There's an old quote in poker where it's like don't throw good money after bad. >> Yes. >> Just because you put x number of chips

[37:25] in the pot by the time the turn gets down doesn't mean you should pay for the river. >> Yeah, that's right. >> And it's just a human psychology thing in life. And that's Trump is a guy who wants to see the river card every single time. And you're just unnecessarily dealing with things like I hate John. I hate it when people put words in my mouth or take words out of my mouth. There is no one with the same brain, starting with me in this case, who is in any way advocating for the people that

[37:56] run Iran or or denying what they are. In fact, we don't even know the numbers of people they killed. I'll believe it. If you say it was 45,000, I'll buy it because they've done it before. >> Fine. I don't care. It's It's a subject I don't need to fight over. Like they're bad. There are unfortunately though third, fourth, fifth, and tenth order effects of things that you do. >> Exactly. Right. >> And if we wanted to be the world's police on everything that you know what we would do, John, >> we would go invade China tomorrow.

[38:28] >> Yeah. >> Cuz I don't know if you noticed, they're killing the weakers. Of course, you know that. >> But why don't we do that, John? Cuz they have aing 20 trillion GDP that we know of allegedly. And that's just not how the world works. Do I like that they do that? No. I hate it. >> And they do more than that as well. >> And for that matter, >> you can't just walk into Iran and be like, you know what? We're going to change the regime today. >> Yeah. >> Doesn't work like that. >> For that matter, why don't we invade Saudi Arabia? >> Exactly.

[38:58] >> For the way they treat their people and they're and that's not a democratic society. If if we're so interested in democracy all around the world, let's invade Saudi Arabia. >> Yep. I you're same point. Exactly. Y and it's just the fact that people can't see that. Like we talk about Afghanistan since the times of Alexander the Great being where empires fall because of the geography and the location, >> right? >> Iran's worse. Every single part of their border is a

[39:29] problem. They got 92 93 million people there. >> That's right. >> The people most advocating for war as of last year didn't even know what the population was there. Hello, Ted Cruz. How are you? Good to see you. >> Yeah, we're talking about you Ted Cruz, >> but like this is what world are we living in where Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz, you know, Mark Leavvin, these are the people winning Trump's year. >> Yeah, >> I don't buy that. I There's more to it.

[40:00] I don't buy that. Like people love to call Trump an idiot. He's not an idiot. >> He's not. >> No. And see the Democrats, >> why is he doing idiotic things? >> Yeah, the Democrats have consistently underestimated Donald Trump. He's not an idiot. He's very bright. He thinks several steps ahead, but apparently not when it comes to the Israelis. And I just don't understand the hold that Benjamin Netanyahu seems to have over him. >> I don't I don't understand it either.

[40:31] And there's so much of it that would just be pure speculation for me to go. The one thing that I have said is I'm like, you know, he knew Epstein for a really long time. We And that's the thing with Trump. There's still so much haziness there. He was good friends with him and everything. Yeah. But he's like the one guy of these powerful people where there's not one email that you can point to and be like, "There it is." Like even some of the FBI cases and stuff that were settled, they were settled by Epstein's estate like after the fact, which is just closing up

[41:03] business and everything. Like it that unfortunately doesn't mean a lot. Like when I'm looking at when he was alive, where is it? Now there's some speck emails. >> You know, Jeffrey Epstein, very bad guy. When he's calling Donald Trump like the worst guy he's ever known, you wonder if that's just because [snorts] he hates him or because he he knows Paul like [laughter] like I don't know, >> you know. Let let me let me add something. >> I'm looking into that. >> Let me add something to that, too. I remember when I was in college, Ronald Reagan was the president when I was in

[41:34] college. And he like every president, he had a cabinet, but he had also something called a kitchen cabinet. And this was all of his billionaire friends from California. And they would meet in Reagan's kitchen uh in in California when he was back on the West Coast. And they would talk about policy and advise him. And so they were his informal adviserss. Well, one of the members of this kitchen cabinet was one of his oldest and closest friends. His name was Bloomingdale. I think it was Alfred Bloomingdale. He was the the founder of

[42:04] the Bloomingdale department store chain. And in 19 whatever it was, 84, 85, 86, Bloomingdale died of a heart attack. But he died of a heart attack on top of his girlfriend with his wife sitting at home. and word got out. Well, later on the public learned through the media that Reagan's initial goto statement was, "I barely

[42:35] knew that guy. We met a couple times, but he was nothing to me." And his adviserss were like, "Everybody in the world knows that Alfred Bloomingdale or whatever his first name was was your best friend." And so the the statement that they ended up coming out with was he was my best friend. I'm sorry that he died this way. I feel sorry for his wife. What he did was wrong, but he was a good man and he was a good friend. It's like yes, the truth shall set you

[43:06] free. It's as easy as that. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's, you know, >> there's like this like if you ever saw VEP, >> right? >> It's a comedy sketch of like what how things are, but then you see the way things happen now and you're like, is it that much different? Do you fun fact

[43:38] ended as a show after winning 13 Emmy awards. Do you know why >> it end it ended because Donald Trump was elected president >> and the craziness from that show >> turned out to be real life in the Trump [clears throat] uh administration the first term and so it just wasn't funny anymore and so they canled the show. >> Yeah, >> that's funny as [ __ ] Yeah. >> Yeah. Let me move on. >> By the way, John, John, real fast. We never came back to that third trunch of

[44:10] emails. >> I don't want to like leave people hanging. Should we do that real quick? >> Yes, let's do that. >> Yeah. So, you had asked me right at the beginning like what we could expect from this or whatever. And the one thing we can point to with evidence is that and that was the part part of the part that left you speechless when you were here which also by the way I'm glad it was wild for you because it was [ __ ] wild for us. >> He was crazy. >> We were like John Kiryaku not saying anything as Hill frozen over.

[44:40] >> Yeah. I didn't know how to respond and I I even said I I'm speechless. I don't even know what to say. >> Yeah. So part of that was the fact that when they ran the data by year of files, the chart basically is like beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep and the the big drop off where everything's canceled is 1991 through 2001. But you know a lot of stuff was going on during those years. >> Oh my god. Yes. 19 >> a lot of stuff was going on.

[45:11] So, I want to know a lot more about that because Jeffrey Epstein's artwork doesn't really help with that. You know, you got Bill Clinton sitting there pointing in the blue dress and then you got George W. Bush playing on the ground at the oval with some falling over towers in a paper airplane like a child and you're like, was that caricature or was that satire, >> right? >> Or you know what I mean? Like like what what was that? So I would like to know

[45:44] if it's if it's much more than that too. We have seen some of the people who I I don't know if it's those files they've gotten access to. I'm talking about like Roana, Thomas Massie, I think Timchett said something too. I don't know if it's the official files that haven't been released. That's a little unclear to me. But I've heard some spec commentary from them that's based I shouldn't say spec. I've heard commentary from them that's based on things that are classified or at least were classified for a while that they saw that could point to other things that are beyond what we know. But

[46:14] like I feel like that is the visual we used earlier with kind of pulling on the spring and then the whole well comes up. I feel like that third tranch is where the pool is. >> And I think that whatever is behind that is a civilizational potential revolutionary type threat. It's bad enough that bread and circus and sitting on your iPhone and getting good TV shows and having the comfort of electricity and Wi-Fi and all these things we enjoy and take for granted these days isn't

[46:45] enough to keep you distracted enough to stay there and not walk outside. That's what might be in there. What do what do you think the likelihood is then that there will be a whistleblower that a brave member of Congress like Thomas Massie or Roana releases it into the congressional record as part of the speech and debate clause? That somebody leaks it to the Washington Post? What do you think the chances are that it's actually going to make its way out there and and we see what what this last three

[47:17] to three and a half million pages really is? >> This is pure spec cuz I I I >> I can't I don't know. This is just me kind of guesstimating. But the fact that it never has >> tells me even now it probably never will. Yeah, >> because it's not just about can people keep a secret, which people do at a certain level have more of an ability to do that than we give them credit for. The old excuse, and I've used it before,

[47:48] and I've rethought this over the past year or two of like, well, if enough people knew about it, it was someone's going to leak it or whatever. You don't account for tying up loose ends. You don't account for all the [ __ ] that you and I would never even occur to think about to solve a problem like that from a threat perspective or something. Well, maybe you would think about it, but I never would. you know, like it would be just movies and and that kind of stuff to me. But, you know, again, it's not a good omen when you see someone like Dan Bonino who's got a very

[48:19] big microphone and has gone so hard, aggressively, angrily the opposite way. And he he sees his numbers. I mean, he's sinking like a lead balloon. >> Yeah. >> And you know, yet he's still doing that every day. >> Yes. >> And he's a wealthy guy. Why is that? I you know something's I I think it's beyond what my understanding of anything could be. Is it is it ali I like is it aliens? I don't know. But it's something that people are like nope can't do that

[48:49] and we're not going to. And so yeah, I feel like like you said correctly, they're completely in violation of federal law right now and they're openly going on podcast and bragging about it. >> Yeah. >> Nothing's going to happen. >> Yeah. And what are they going to do? They're going to arrest themselves. That's what it would come down to. The any member of Congress can make a referral, criminal referral to the Justice Department saying you you need to arrest yourself because the law compels you to release the documents. You haven't released them. So, you should arrest yourself and and be

[49:21] prosecuted. It's never going to happen in a million years. Julian, the last time I was on your show, you did something that never happens to me. You shocked me into silence. I'm never silent on podcast, but we were talking about the Epstein Files. You had such a deep understanding of the Epstein Files and the craziness that is the Epstein Files. I've been thinking about it since I was on the show. We're talking about weeks ago and I want to come back to it. One of the things that we talked about

[49:52] that has has bothered me very much is in in the last trunch of between three and three and a half million documents. Uh it it turned high society in America on its ear. There are still another three to three and a half million pages that the president has said and former attorney general Pam Bondi, she was the sitting attorney general when you and I last spoke, said will not be released. Now, this is in direct defiance of the law.

[50:22] The law is clear. The vote was 419 to1 in the House. It was 100 to zero in the Senate and the president signed it and then he said, "Oh, I'm not going to respect the law. I'm not releasing any more information." So, if you could give our viewers a an idea of why that second trunch was so important and why you think the third trunch will or will not be released.

[50:52] >> Okay. So, let's start with the second tunch and then just if I forget, remind me to come back to the third tunch. But there were multiple tanches technically, but if we're talking about the main things where we got big dumps, we had the one in December and then we had the one on January 30th or 31st, whatever that Friday was, and that was the second one that really flipped the world upside down. The reason that one was so eyeopening and shocking is because it for the first time officially showed

[51:24] all these people, these elites of high society in a way that you and I, well, maybe you through your old job, but like I could never possibly understand, discussing some of the most disgusting things openly in a I wouldn't even describe it as just flippant, but in like an understood manner on Gmail, you know, and basically admitting that this idea of like some global elite society pulling the strings

[51:56] in ways that we can't see go far beyond a ballot box that we vote for on Tuesdays and November actually does exist. Here it is out in the open and they laugh at the fact that they can do everything without us knowing because that's just the way the world works. So I think at the highest 30,000 ft view >> in the air, that's what was shocking. Then you see the actual details. And the thing that really shocked me to my core was the fact that there were people in the past, and I think you had similar sentiments when we talked about this as

[52:27] well. There were people in the past who would make some claims to me that even if I could look at it retroactively and say, you know what, they didn't really present a lot of evidence to me. I have to, it doesn't matter. I still have to go back to those people and be like, "Hey, I thought that was complete bullshit." And I can no longer say for sure that's [ __ ] And in some cases, it's like, "No, that might there might be something real there." >> Like, for sure. You see coded language. And it also went way beyond just the sex

[52:57] trafficking, which if you're someone who's looked at at this case as long as I have, that part was less surprising, but the scope of it and the height of the power of it was on a level that I don't know that I totally foresaw. I knew Epstein was like that. I didn't know he was like like that. Like that, if that makes sense. >> Yeah. Yeah. And you and I also talked about like Tucker Carlson's idea of like there being this supra government. >> Yes. >> Where you know, you have the layer that

[53:27] we thought was the top layer which is basically like heads of state, think the president, heads of major countries, heads of industry, you know, people like that. And they run >> Well, yeah, we would have put the bankers that we see in there, the Jamie Diamonds of the world, but we thought that was the top level. And what Tucker was saying, and I I agree with him. I think the evidence is there. It's actually the third level. There's two levels above that. The level at the top is like the shadow society of technocrats and bankers who actually run

[53:59] the world, you know, including people you have never heard of. Not just people that are, you know, been on the conspiracy theory videos that are looking pretty right, you know, over the past 10, 20 years, but people that literally to this day we don't even know their names from these emails. and people who we do think the Rothschilds and stuff like that. And then there's a layer in between them and the heads of states and the heads of industry and that's the fixer class which is like this billionaire class of sleuthy spy types. The way the way I would describe

[54:29] it is you ever seen Breaking Bad? >> Oh yeah. Every episode. >> Okay. Yeah. Jeffrey Epstein's Mike Trout. >> Yeah. Mike Trout shows up in a He's a billionaire. Mike Trout. Mike Urban Trout shows up in a Lincoln Town car looking like he'd rather be anywhere else in the world. And when Walter White talks to him, Walter White thinks he's the dog. But then when he steps out of line, Mike Trout slaps him in the face like, you know, a child and says, "No, no, no.

[55:00] Here's what you're going to do." And Mike Trout works for the guys that you've never seen before. >> And the guys you've never seen before who runs the world. So we we got that layering. And I feel real. The more I look at these emails, the more I go through them, the more I look at the context, the more I feel really comfortable with that. Now, coming back to the third trunch that we haven't seen and they're telling us we're never going to see, which by the way, I would just like to say Todd Blanch while we're at this, too. Um, he's worse than Bondi

[55:30] because she's Bondi at least like, you know, she's not operating with a full deck. This is not an intelligent woman. I don't know how she got through law school. I don't want to speculate, but like there's the lights are on and there's not a lot home. Todd Blanch is a smart guy. Todd Blanch is a smart guy. He knows exactly what's going on. And I don't know that I've ever seen someone so confidently snarkily gaslighting people on I mean he's going on Steven Miller's wife's podcast to gaslight

[56:02] people at this point. Like get out of here, pal. You know, and then there was the press conference that he saw. Maybe it was from last summer or like or maybe the winter or something like that where the reporter is asking him about are we going to hear more about you know the sex trafficking of children? He's like sex trafficking of children and then the reporter's like yeah you know like Jeffrey Eps he's like uhhuh uhhuh uh-huh >> yeah no no there's nothing like that in there. It it's so sinister >> and that would account for Dan Bonino

[56:32] being as being as angry as he was when he resigned. Do you remember just the week before Dan Bonjino resigned as the uh deputy director of the FBI? He was in a press conference with Cash Patel, the director of the FBI, and uh Pam Bondi, the attorney general, and he had the most furious, the angriest look on his face, and he didn't say a word. They did the talking. Next thing you know, he resigns and then he doesn't want to talk about it. Well, the people who followed him were the same ones who celebrated

[57:02] his appointment as deputy director of the FBI because finally MAGA is going to get in there and they're going to drain the swamp. And the swamp wasn't drained. The swamp creatures maintained their authority over the swamp. And he realized there's no solution here. At least not one that I can fix as the deputy director of the FBI. >> Right. >> That's right. Painful. I wonder, man. I'd love to be a fly on the wall back there.

[57:32] >> Yeah, you can say >> I I I I was never a fan of Dan Bonino. I mean, I have very different politics from him and he was always just kind of an angry screamer to me. But I respected the fact that here was a guy who had a very big show, made a lot of money, and decided to put action behind his words and go in and attempt to do something about it. I wasn't really sure what his qualifications were to run the FBI. He had been in the Secret Service before, but you know what? The FBI had fallen so

[58:04] far that like as far as I'm concerned, you could have gotten that Iraqi janitor to get in there and try to do it if he was still alive. God bless him. >> If you know, you know. [laughter] But it's like, you know, I appreciated that he was doing that. And then I remember when they first when there was the snafu in like June, July when Elon came out and nuked Trump about the Epstein thing and then the administration was trying to say, "Yeah, all the stuff we said about there being files, there really are none. There's nothing to see here."

[58:34] I remember it was around that era, Bonino did an interview with Cash Patel for Fox News and he looked like a hostage. I mean, if you've ever seen the meme of the kid leaning forward with like his vein in his forehead, which I always thought Dan Bonino was the was the adult version of that kid. It was on a whole another level, you know, and it looked like it was like, "Blink twice or I'll be shot." So, I remember thinking like, damn, I'm really going to want to see what he has

[59:04] to say when he leaves. And then he leaves and he goes fullblown. I mean, he's got the boots so far down his throat, he can taste the rubber in his stomach. >> Mhm. >> So, and watching him disparage people, I mean, he's so hated. His own base hates him. And then you see some of these public appearances where he gets where people walk up to him and so go yourself down and [ __ ] like that. And he looks

[59:34] dead inside. He looks like, >> you hear that phrase that's overused sometimes like like, "Oh, they saw a ghost." He looks like he saw a hundred ghosts. >> It's It's as though he can't believe this is happening to him because he really believed in his own mind that he was doing the right thing and he was going to clean the place up and he can't believe this is happening to him. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I just if I were him, a little PR advice for Dan out there, he won't do this, but you know, if I if I

[1:00:06] were fly on the wall back there and I had seen whatever happened to him and whoever walked in with a black hat and said, "Hey, hey buddy, here's the reality we're dealing with here. If you do anything, if I were him having left there and I had millions and millions of dollars in the bank like he does, I would have gone away. I wouldn't have gotten in front of a camera. I would have gone away. I would have gone to an island somewhere. That's a bad way. >> No, no pun intended. >> You shouldn't have said it like that. I would have gone somewhere incognito

[1:00:38] with my family and gotten the out of dodge. And he's tried to walk back in like it's nothing and say, "Oh yeah, no, it's all nothing." And it's just very strange because first of all, another surprise in the second trunch is that my government and intelligence in my government in the United States is more involved than I previously thought. Yes. >> The more I look at it, the more I'm like, yo, they go back farther than I always thought.

[1:01:09] >> They're more involved than I thought. This guy was dealing with a lot of different people, including a lot of elements of my own government. It's not this unitary story that I thought it was where it was like it's just MSAD. However, secondly, yeah, he was kneedeep in MSAD. Anyone with half a brain's known that for the last seven, eight years, seven years, whatever it is, you know, so it's just very strange when guys like Bonino go out of their way to shut that part down and be like,

[1:01:39] "Yeah, no, no, no, nothing to see there." Like, why is that? >> What do you What do you attribute that to? because he has he has gone out of his way to shut that down. And we all know >> I mean like you say if you have half a brain >> you see that he was Mossad that he had volunteered to the CIA. He had volunteered to the FBI. He had volunteered to MI5 and MI6. He had sought a meeting with Vladimir Putin personally and was turned down. >> So he was out there volunteering to anybody who would take a meeting with

[1:02:10] him. >> Why? And why are we denying that that took place? >> Well, because like you say, anybody with half a brain can see what was happening here. You know, Alan Dersowitz won't even speak to me anymore because I have said repeatedly in his presence that Epstein was a Mossad access agent >> and he's told you that's why he won't speak to you. >> Oh, yeah. He's he he's furious with me.

[1:02:41] Yes. Furious. But that's okay. I'll survive somehow. Somehow I I'll get past it somehow. Um >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But but what do you attribute all this to? If if Cash Patel, who was supposed to be one of the good guys, whether you agree with his politics or not, and Dan Bino, who came in as, you know, the guy that's going to fix all this, if they either are silenced or co-opted, one seems to have gone one way, the

[1:03:12] other seems to have gone the other, then what is what is in these files that has so cowed these people? >> Or what have they done? I don't know. or >> everyone's got their skeletons in in their closet. I I don't know how it works back there. Th honestly this is a question that you'd be way better speculating on than me. M but there there's little things that happen in my studio where

[1:03:43] you know I talk to all these different people from so many walks of life and like these little lines maybe it's just cuz I'm in here but they'll stand out to me sometimes and even if they don't hit as hard for people at home just watching it on TV or listening they stick with me and I remember back all the way in episode 16 this is 2020 towards the start of my I had my friend Alex Horowitz on the show who >> was one of the early employees at Eight Sleep, which is like a major sleep startup that's worth billions. And so he

[1:04:14] had been in and around the whole VC universe and all that. And one of the things he said at the time was that and and I forget exactly how he said it, so I'll [ __ ] up the phrasing. He said it way better than this, but he's like these people, referring to people at the highest levels of government and their partners in the tech community who work with them have the ability to simulate society. And what he meant by that was they can simulate an impetus that they put on people, information they share with a population and simulate what

[1:04:45] would happen should they share that information. He was telling me this back in 2020 that they had the power to do this. And the more time went by, the more I was like, I think he's right about that. And so what I sit up and wonder is if all the things that are attached to Epstein or if Epstein's just, you know, the little plug you're pulling from the dam where you see a trickle and then all of a sudden the whole spring like pops up and it's something way beyond him. >> You know, have they, >> and I'm not defending them in doing

[1:05:15] this, I'm just speculating if this is what the logic is. Have they simulated this and decided, "Oh my god, if we come out with this, this is a civilizational collapse, existential crisis, and society can't handle it. So, we'd rather just deal with the bad PR. A bunch of people are going to lose on a Tuesday in November, but the system will survive, whatever that means, right?" >> And it comes back to it comes back to the house of cards that we live in. You know, we I I look around all the time and I go, man, the the cars down there are driving on the right side of the

[1:05:46] road and the other ones are driving on their right side of the road and it works. What happens the day where they all decide to drive on the opposite side of the road or one side decides to drive on the opposite side of the road? Everyone dies. It's that simple. >> Yes. >> Right. So, when we look at laws, when we look at borders, countries, all these things, the the older I get, the more I realize these are just stories that we've told ourselves. and at a base level have built into our being in a country like America that we accept. We accept the fact that there are laws and if you break them, you go to jail.

[1:06:17] >> Yeah. >> So if that were to all collapse [ __ ] French Revolution style or something, you have Mad Max Fury Road. >> Yes. >> And so what these guys may be thinking is we have we have Yes. Exactly. We have enough control of of the narrative that we can take bad PR for a while by basically saying, "Oh, you see the law there?" Yeah, it doesn't apply to us. And some of us will lose. Some people will be exposed by TMZ and be forced to resign. But these are just cogs on the wheel. And as long as the system stays

[1:06:48] in place, it'll all be worth it 10 years from now. And this isn't about Israel. It's not about China. It's not about the US. It's about the system, whatever that is, if that makes sense. See, but then doesn't it just make it look like the system is so corrupt that it can't possibly continue to function or maybe conversely the system is so the corrupt system is so embedded in American culture that we get to see how corrupt it is with the

[1:07:19] release of these documents and nobody cares. What we're not seeing, >> what we're not seeing is is people in the streets demanding the heads of the people who have appeared in these files. You and I were talking several weeks ago about uh Katherine Remler, who was the White House general counsel, the top the top attorney in the Obama White House, exchanging thousands of emails with Jeffrey Epstein and trying repeatedly to

[1:07:52] introduce Jeffrey Epstein to CIA director John Brennan. We don't know why. She won't talk. And it's not like she she faded into obscurity at the end of the Obama administration. She went on to be the general counsel at Goldman Sachs, probably making more money than she could count in a lifetime. And it was only because she was outed by people like you who were actually going through these these Epstein files that she finally was forced to resign. So why why are people not in the streets over this?

[1:08:24] Why is this not a campaign issue? for example, we've got volatile midterm elections coming up in November and nobody's talking about this stuff. Why? It's an amazing question. And I there was from a one of the solo episodes that we're doing weekly now as well on top of the guest episodes. I had a clip that we later put out where I said, you know, I watched cities burned because one guy died

[1:08:54] and I don't see anyone in the streets over all these kids and everything. And that's something we all ag the the whole show, we all agree on it. Why is that? And some people answered me angrily and and and I appreciate them a lot because they're they're fed up and they said because no one's paying for it. >> And I said ah >> and that's true. The reason that people were out in the streets so heavily in the past has been because there's funding behind these things and they find the people who are looking to

[1:09:25] make a few bucks and go out there and yell and say down with the system and all that and then go home and and sit on this and be a part of the same system that you know they claim to just be against and everything. But there is something about the comfort that we've been afforded in society where everything is available to us that the same people who go on a and and you know what I'm guilty of this sometimes too. So I'm not just calling out a bunch of people here, but like will go on and complain about X and then walk outside

[1:09:55] and passively do Y and Y is the same as X in different packaging. >> Yeah. You know, I can sit here and complain about food dyes and stuff and then drink out of the same plastic water bottle for five days, >> right? >> Jokes on me. You know what I mean? I I've done that. Uh, so there's something about that slow burn where you don't just get bread and circus, but you get so many things that

[1:10:25] are automated in your life that that the most simple survival things like food, water, and shelter are so far past what we have to look at, right? Like that's the that's the baseline of humanity. Oh, if I don't go out and kill something today, you know, some animal and eat, we're my family dies. If we don't get to a cave, we're going to get eaten by a lion. We are so evolved past that that all the thousands of other things that we take for granted in between then and there allows us to get to this point

[1:10:57] that the most we do is yell on a phone or, you know, if you're actually a creator or something trying to do something about it, I'm talking to a camera into a mic. It helps get the message out, but that's one step in what really needs to be about a hundred, 200 steps to actually get something done. >> Yeah. >> You know, so it's sometimes it is hard not to be cynical about it, but I also try to look at it like what are

[1:11:27] the the the cons here to taking it all down at once. Like you and I both agree. We have a similar worldview in Yeah. about the rot >> in the system. Exactly. Trying to get >> rid% correct. Yes. >> Right. But here's the way I put it. Let's say you walk up to the biggest mansion on Earth and it's historic. It's 3,000 years old. It's a It's like, you know, majestic. It's on a plot of land that's I don't know 30 square miles.

[1:11:58] There are 10,000 rooms in this castle, mansion, whatever you want to call it. And you re you come upon it and you realize that there's been a massive a massive asbestous and termites breakout in there. Okay? >> Not in every room though. Not in every single room, but in many rooms. And you have two options. You can be like, "Oh my god, we got to get how many people with hazmat suits and go in here and try to go room to room and just burn out one

[1:12:29] room at a time to be able to salvage the structure. That's going to take Oh, it's going to take 30 years and [ __ ] Oh my god." Or you sit there and you go, you know what? It really sucks. I love history. This is a great thing, but we still got the land. You know what? Just just burn it down. We'll rebuild something new. The easy thing is to do the burndown. The harder thing and and I don't want to marry myself to this, but I believe the right thing is to do the room by room asbestous. >> You know, I don't think you can just

[1:13:00] cancel every single thing in our system at once because, you know, there's a subset of our system that has decided they're going to rape kids and and not adhere by what people vote for, right? You got to get rid of that. And then you got to get rid of all the things the octopus tentacles that that touches. >> Yeah. >> While still preserving some sanctity of what our guys built into the original Constitution, which we have drifted farther and farther away from to be very clear. I'm not denying that at all. I study the out of the Revolutionary War.

[1:13:31] I love that stuff. Like this is like a big deal for me that it's 250 this summer and it's got me thinking a lot about like where we're at. And no one's perfect. Those guys were not perfect by any stretch, but they were amazing. And the that they were able to foresee and write into some level of code at least, you know, whether it be in the Constitution or the ideas that they later put out in formulating the government and setting precedent is incredible. And for some reason, it just

[1:14:04] feels like that that not to use the word twice, but that precedent overall that they set is less and less followed by the people who seem to find themselves in powerful positions. And that that's why a case like yours stood out to me so much because I remember reading about your case like long before I knew you years ago when it was there. >> And it's you're looking at this and you're like, "Huh? So th this guy kind of did the right thing and he's they're throwing him in

[1:14:34] jail for it. That's interesting. And I heard I saw some clip of you. I don't know where it was cuz you're everywhere on the internet these days, but you were talking about you were talk and it was in your normal voice too. It wasn't the meme voice. We were talking about how you were this nobody, so to speak, that people hadn't heard of, but that you essentially were going to be the guy that was an example for future cases that could get all the way

[1:15:04] up to the president himself. You're like, after me comes Michael Flynn and then all these other people that they go after with some interesting evidence. You know, it's like >> even if I could analyze it and say, let's say for some of the people that came after you, there's some evidence there that they [ __ ] something up. Well, they took it from, you know, a two to a 10 on all those people. And that's not right either. That's right. You have to do things. Well, the system says you should do things by the letter of the law. >> And you should do things that are that are on the basis of upholding the standards of the Constitution. And I also think that means when things are

[1:15:36] done in dark shadowy rooms that directly violate the Constitution in ways that the American people are not aware of, that's completely unfair to the rights and privileges of being able to be an American citizen. If someone is to speak out about that in a way where it is certainly a matter of last resort as well, where they've they've tried it in in the chains of command and it has been shut down, then I think that that person should be protected from prosecution. Yeah.
